Demand Gen Chat
Demand Gen Chat

Season 3, Episode 9 · 5 months ago

What execs really want to see from marketing & how to position your product as must-have vs nice to have | Ashley Wilson @ Momentum

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In the newest episode of Demand Gen Chat, I spoke with Ashley Wilson, co-founder and COO at Momentum. Ashley’s career started in marketing and she has since co-founded Momentum, a sales automation platform for revenue teams.

If you’re a marketer looking for guidance on the best way to update your leadership team on how marketing is going, you won’t want to miss this episode. We also chat about how Ashley approached making her first marketing hire, how marketers should spend their first 30 days in a role to have the biggest impact, and how getting your messaging right can help position your product as a must-have vs nice to have when budgets are tight.

Show Notes

Follow Tara: https://www.linkedin.com/in/taraarobertsonFollow Ashley: https://www.linkedin.com/in/awilson820/

Check out the Inside Olivine newsletter: https://olivinemarketing.substack.com/

About Demand Gen ChatDemand Gen Chat is a Chili Piper podcast hosted by Tara Robertson. Join us as we sit down with B2B marketing leaders to hear about the latest tactics and campaigns that are driving pipeline and revenue. If you’re looking for tactical ways to improve your marketing, this podcast is for you!

Welcome back to another episode of demand Gen chat. I'm your host, Haara Robertson, and today I'm joined by a special guest. I usually speak with marketers on the show, but today I'm joined by Ashley Wilson. Ashley as the CO founder and CEO at momentum, a sales automation platform for revenue teams. Ashley, welcome to the podcast a thanks so much for having me. Thanks so much for joining. Really looking forward to this conversation. I think I mentioned this right before we started recording, but I usually speak with marketers and obviously you have a ton of experience in marketing prior to founding momentum. So really curious you're a little bit about your transition from marketer to co founder and how did you go about that transition? was there anything that really surprised you making that jump? Yeah, so, before I started momentum, I had founded a product marketing agency called Olivine in Um. That's still running and I was going very well and actually my husband, who's one of my co founders, started momentum with Moy's our third co founder, and Uh yeah, I was helping out on the marketing side along with my my partner Rachel, at momentum, I mean sorry, at Olivine and we were sort of acting as a third CO founder, helping with the earliest stage of positioning and messaging and thinking about what the website would look like. And Uh, I didn't really have plans to necessarily join momentum full time, but after about six months realized that I was kind of itching to get back into startup land and uh, it just made sense for me to jump into momentum more full time and ray to kind of run olivine Um and and do the agency thing. So that was how how I found myself back now as a founder and back in startups. That's really interesting to me that you kind of jumped a bit back and forth between obviously being on the consulting side, you're working with startups a lot of the time, but I could see that it to want to go back and do it yourself and kind of get back in the weeds of things. How did you end up in the CEO role? How did that happen?...

In Yeah, when I joined Um kind of momentum and really thinking about the role that I wanted to play, I obviously had the strong marketing background but from starting all of mine and running that agency. I had gotten with heat wet with operations and kind of being the for a while, the one person banned around finance and Um, all the admin and and operations stuff that goes with building a business, and I found Um that it was just a very interesting and challenging space and thinking about going into Moromentum, as much as I love the marketing stuff, I was more interested in kind of staying maybe even higher level and to just be more strategic around Um, how we do customer success and how we do marketing and our strategy. And I love project management and I ended up doing a lot of project management Um, of course, at all of mine, and I wanted to bring that into the company. So I felt like if I was CMO I might be a little bit boxed into Um just the marketing role and of course, as a marketer I know that that role is gigantic. So it's not Um. There would be plenty to do in that role. I just exactly it's not a just cmo more of really wanting, because it's my own company, getting the opportunity to wear many hats sounded really interesting to me. So I wanted to kind of stretch and and and take that on as a challenge. Hm. And how do you find your splitting your time between? You mentioned? Obviously CMO could be more than a full time role itself. Do you have a dedicated day a week you're focused on marketing, or do you have a different way of organizing your schedule? Well, I was lucky enough to bring on a marketing lead ahead of marketing a couple of months ago, so that's really freed me up to focus on other things. Before marketing really took up probably sixty of my time just naturally that was kind of where I um. There's, of course, a lot to do in terms of just building content and the website...

...and the brand and events and and all the stuff that goes into kind of establishing yourself in a space. Now that Clayton is on board, I've I've taken on customer success, so I manage our customer success. Um, we have one C one CSM right now and Um, pretty pretty robust, I would say. Kind of CSM motion of just once a customer comes in, really kind of helping grow the account. So that that takes up time. We're we're building out kind of the onboarding process and the kind of the full CSM process and then also doing a lot around overseeing, you know, finance and operations and planning for the future, planning for fundraising. Um, I oversee kind of our okay, our initiatives each quarter. So trying to Um, kind of help the team align towards some of our our north stars and our goals and making sure that there's accountability there. So I think now I'd say probably we spend my my marketing time, my customer success time operations is pretty dependent on maybe when I'm meeting with the team, so the days that I have one on ones and kind of doing reviews, and then otherwise I try to just kind of spend equal amounts of time on those other areas at the business right. And how did you go about finding that head of marketing, because obviously you were kind of doing a lot of that work yourself, so looking to find someone that you could delegate to but also could run with it, um. So how did you go about that and what qualities were you looking for? Yeah, I got lucky with with with hiring Clayton. I would say um definitely did a little bit of an outreach, of course, and and posted it on Linkedin and through my network and then, Um, we're part of a kind of a founder Entrepreneur Entrepreneur Community called South Park Commons here in San Francisco. Now it's kind of more global with the pandemic. It's pretty virtual. But somebody actually, around the same time that I posted our job, breck posted, Hey, I have a friend. Um,...

...he had already worked kind of in a similar a different company, but kind of in our space. So he had familiarity and I I had said, man, I think my Unicorn Marketer would have a growth and a product marketing background and I felt like that was probably too much to ask, but I was like I'll just throw it out there to the universe and see and Um with yeah, he, he really he fit the build. So I got pretty lucky with just kind of having it come through a referral and feeling like hey, this is a really good fit for just the stage that we're at. And it is definitely challenging to decide what type of marketer to hire for your first, your second or third. Do you bring in somebody very senior? Do you bring in Somebody Junior? Do you bring in somebody to just do content? Do you want a specialist. You want a generalist, and I think it's so dependent on the business and the needs. It's there's not a one size fits all, um, but I definitely was was going into it, uh, with with an idea and mine and just saying like okay, let's see if this this works out, and knowing that because I have the marketing background, I will I will end up filling in some of the gaps and kind of continue to fill some IC role as needed. Yeah, that makes sense. And is it just him today on the marketing team, or are you outsourcing anything to an agency or anything? Yeah, we it's just him in the House and then we've been working um, we have a kind of a design branding agency that we work with, we do up until recently. We're doing that. We're working with a content marketer. Um, he unfortunately went in house before we could snag him, but we're, you know, probably go back to doing kind of freelance content and then that's primarily right now. Well, yeah, that's good background and a lot of people listening to this are that kind of Solo Marketer, that one marketer that's kind of doing it all, juggling multiple hats. So I'm curious from the exact perspective that you're sitting in, what do you look for from your marketing...

...lead? Is it? Have you mentioned that? You're doing okay R so I'd love to hear a little bit about that on the marketing team. Um, but are there any other kpis that are really the main focus month over month? Yeah, I think. Yeah, I I did that role in my first startup, UM, back in two thousand ten of the company is called sauce labs. That was the first kind of the only really non technical person, kind of the hired to do events and anything, and then it turned into all. I ended up running marketing. We evolve be in there exactly. So you get your your feet wet saying like wow, there is so much to do, not enough time and and very little direction, because at a startup there's just whoever you're reporting to as a million other things on their plate. So it's interesting for me at the exact side of really I mean what I what I said to Clayton when I hired him, is you're going to have a lot of leeway and freedom, and so I think that's a blood singing, a curse, because I think our our roles and and my role, particularly with the okay Rs, is to kind of set a high level direction and strategy, but I want him or or whomever we hire to to basically take that and and turn that into tactics that they believe in, tactics that they feel like they can execute. And and we all come from different experiences, we all have, you know, different points of view. So I don't want to do too much mandating on how we get it done Um, but in terms of the okay Rs, I think it's helpful. What we do is kind of setting a quarterly strategy and making sure that there's some big boulders that each of the departments are moving. So we just launched a momentum for basically post sales. So it's a way for post sales teams and customer success teams to to manage their their accounts easier and slack and for us that was just a great forcing function for Engineering, Customer Success Marketing...

...to come together and do a launch. There's nothing better than a launch, as every marketer knows, and so for for the team we really said Hey, this launch is happening, make it happen in the quarter, and then it was on them to, you know, picked the date, do all the launch activities and really be there to support. So I think, going back to your initial question around what I look for, I look for a lot of initiative. I look for Um, pretty organized, able to kind of project manage him or herself, Um, and I look for creativity. So basically, can you can you take a mandate to do a launch and then turn it into something that that makes everyone feel great and feel like, Hey, we did that? MM HMM. Yeah, I think you're right. A launch is kind of the dream of every team coming together, especially at a small startup. It's marketing is kind of one chance to work with product or with sales. Yes, so outside of the launch, there anything maybe that he did or that other marketers you've worked with have done early on to kind of prove, Hey, I hired the right person and there I have the right person in this role. They're really carrying it and I can kind of take a step back and I don't have to maybe worry so much about it. Yeah, I think marketers who are in their first kind of thirty, sixty, ninety days really at first thirty days, let's say, Um, because it's gonna be just that natural onboarding time where you're just like going to get thrown so much and you have to but any of those quick wins like something that some things that that Clayton did that I really appreciated and that other other folks in the team commented to me on and to him, you know, kind of really quickly came in and say said, Hey, what what are we doing on this S C O Front? Hey, what are we doing on the optimizing, you know, our our Google or ads? Hey, what's going on with this intercom messaging? Like, Hey, have we have we looked at how the leads are interacting with us? So we really and there were just a lot of things that it kind of fall...

...and through the cracks. I think we had set those things up on day one to sort of cover the basis, but then I really had not been getting too into the weeds on on those things and just to have somebody who's able to kind of roll up their sleeves and also to point out areas of improvement really quickly, I really appreciate. It's like I'm hiring you to come in and make us better. So I think somebody, Um, I would give advice of you don't want to get too stuck in strategy and in planning. I think that you have to kind of balance all right, put a plan together, and we we certainly did that, of like okay, what's the marketing goals for the first month, two months, and and knowing, I mean ultimate KPI right now is really just leads. So of driving kind of inbound leads, but finding even those small quick wins to just show that you are able to kind of learn the business and and and not be afraid to speak up. I think it's really really key. Yeah, I think for a lot of people, especially new to marketing, it can be tough to speak up without a solution necessarily, just to say hey, what are we doing for S C o? But if you don't have all the answers, people might be hesitant to speak up. So I think that's really good advice to just today he put the question out there. See what if you can own it. Um, going back to you mentioned leads, so I'm going to jump on that. I'm curious what other metrics through the funnel marketing is tracking, if there's anything on your radar. Obviously you have a big Um for a view looking at cs and everything across the board on the CEO Front, but just marketing specifically, if there's any other metrics that you're trying to move the needle on week over week or month over month? Yeah, leads, of course, is a big one. Um For us, first meeting booked. It's kind of our sort of Golden Kpi, I would say, right now. You know, leads are, our course, important for just filling the top of funnel, but we want to get them on that first call and doing a demo. So so that's the one that's really we are deciding. If you know, when we were doing ads and kind of...

...optimizing our ads, it's not just are we bringing leads in from ads, but are they actually getting on a call with us? And Right now for ads we're just doing um like linkedin requested demo. So making sure that they're actually going through the funnel and doing kind of the metric that we deem as successful to know if we should keep spending money on that. Ben We're also we are looking at things like our linkedin followers and some of that brand stuff. That just is a more longer term focus for us that I think you have to keep investing in. Um. So kind of doing some of those requests for follows and and just seeing if those counts are going up. Obviously salespeople are spending all their time on Linkedin, so that's kind of the main, I would say, social channel these days. We of course on on twitter and stuff, but but linkedin is where most of the engagement is. So organic, organic followers to a Linkedin page is another one that we're kind of tracking to just say hey, are we are we having good reaches? Our reach expanding? Are People engaging with their content? That's a good point to bring up because I feel like, especially at a fast growing startup, people focus down funnel, which is natural to do. You need to bring in leads for the sales team, but if you're not growing the top of funnel you can run into a problem later on where you've just exhausted those book a demo ads that you're running and no one's clicking and you can run into kind of a negative situation there where people aren't clicking through anymore. So that's good to have that focus on growing. Yeah, on growing top of funnel. I'm curious just with this is very hot topic right now, obviously on Linkedin, but kind of everywhere, but with the economy being kind of just a big question mark right now, lots of talk of layoffs, people pausing hiring, have there been anything that you've been able to do to stand out? It sounds like you're growing your momentum on the linkedin organic side Um, but any other kind of campaigns? Maybe it's just messaging that's been working to help your products stand out as really a must have and not a nice to have in this type of kind of rocky economy that we're seeing right now.

Yeah, I think that's a great question to ask right now. We that was actually a big focus of the launch that we just did on product hunt and our blog and stuff around the momentum for post sales, but we called it momentum for renewals and up cells. So we decided to do that Um in early May, so it was kind of before things really took a nose dive, but as we were coming up with the messaging we realized, wow, this is actually very fitting from a get more out of your customers. We certainly are focused on that internally of how can we keep growing our customers, renewals, expansions, really focused on the customers success motion and feeling like wow, okay, well, here is a tool that can help people do that easier. So that was something that we did to kind of I think we really sort of at the at the last minute. Really it's like, Oh, let's let's date, let's lean into this further with this messaging. I think our initial kind of headline was momentum for post sales, and we're like yeah, post sales, that might have been okay o months ago. Like it's kind of more of like a softer cell. It's like no renewals, retention, net dollar retention, up sells a lot more of Hey, times are tough. What can you do to just make sure that you're giving your customers a really great experience and that they kind of at minimum, renew and, at best, are really expanding, even in these uncertain times? So I'd say that that was something that we and we're still kind of focusing on. I think we're incorporating that now more into our kind of first demo experience and sales pitch, knowing that that part of the Um, maybe the robots initiative, is going to really be around renewals going forward. So focusing on the outcome that people can achieve using the product, not so much just hey, we're calling it postal because that's the team that it's for. makes...

...a ton of sense. Yeah, and was selling to the sales and robots audience new to you or was that an audience that you've had experience in previous roles? Yeah, that's a new new audience, Um for me, because I my first yeah, the first company that I worked for in Tech Um sold to developers. So that was kind of where I got my my my foreing into into marketing. And Uh, and then all of mine really was focused initially on selling to or helping developer focused companies, but then has expanded really just to be enterprise kind of SAS companies, I would say, are split in terms of who hires us. So who I would kind of pitch all of mine? Two would be probably founders, C RS or head of marketing. So certainly always had kind of a bit of a Um, a sales angle, and a big part of what all of mine does is else enablement. So I've always stayed pretty close to that side of marketing, supporting a sales team, but definitely settling into I think revops in particular is just this emerging Um trend more than a trend. I mean it's a department, it's a field, but it's really Um. We're kind of getting into this new, new area and focus of the company, of a team of people who are managing, you know, people, processes and tooling, and I think more and more of that, like the customer success the post sales size, is going to fall under robots and you'll just have that layer of of a team that has to manage Um, basically making optimizing the revenue process. So it's definitely been a new a new thing to sell to, but I think it's a very timely Um, a timely space to be in and that makes it very interesting and fun. Yeah, I feel like this trend around making the most of what you have, kind of filling the gaps in your...

...funnel. A lot of times teams just turned to their revops, maybe it's one person, maybe it's a team, but the vops manager and say hey, what can we do with our database? How can we brand leads this month? What can we push through on at the end of the quarter? So I feel like it's as much as the economy topic keeps coming up. Selling to that audience. I feel like this whole efficiency kind of angle comes up a lot because they're often just brought into those conversations when things are starting to kind of take a nose dive internally. That's when they're often looked to as the expert. Um. And how do you go about learning about this new audience? So it sounds like you had a little bit of experience on this selling to sales, but revolts was brand new. Is there anywhere you would recommend marketers start when they're selling into a brand new audience? Yeah, I would say that we really benefited from the first couple of months at the momentum, just getting a bunch of advisors. We have a couple of really great advisors and the re Ab space who, Um, who helped kind of open up our eyes to what could be possible with our product. And I think then from getting more customers on the REV upside and kind of those initial design partners of the product, you know, customer stop was built the product, and then saying like Hey, I have this pain point around, you know, stale leads, I have this pain point around approvals. I have to and realizing like wow, there is a whole world here, Um, and we continue to meet with some of those advisors, you know, buying weekly. So it's been really helpful too. That's how we kind of know, I mean months ago hearing about like, Oh man, there's going to be a big push around renewals this next year, and that was before the market downturn. So so kind of having an ear to the ground has been really helpful. Um. Also in a couple of the revolts co OP group on slack is very good. Just like a couple of thousand repops folks in there, Um, who were an initial kind of community partner. So I got to get involved early. There's the deal desk association on Linkedin. There's...

...so there's a couple of kind of specialty groups within the rebos function that that have a lot of great just like tactical knowledge sharing. Um. There's rev genius, which of course is like a very broad Um Group on slack, but they have like a rebots focus. So those have been those have been really good for just getting Um, I love, I mean probably daily I just check and see like what questions people are asking, what jobs people are posting, Um, what tooling people are recommending, just to know kind of what you can get a lot of nuggets of information and even product ideas out of that when you start to see a lot of the same questions over and over. And of course it's a great way to learn about other tools in our space or competition. But yeah, the revolts co OP group in particular has been has been great. So really just getting in those communities, participating, keeping an ear to the ground on what people are saying great. And what about that advisory board you mentioned? Is that was that a customer advisory board at the beginning or did it start as just some advisors of friends prospects that you wanted to kind of pick their brain on what they were? I would say it was kind of a combination. Like it was. I don't we never did a formal customer advisory board. We still don't really have that, but that's also because we we engaged with most of our customers just directly on slack and we, like I said, we meet with them every two weeks. So we have I mean are a lot of our product isn't slack and we run every we run momentum on slack. We we dog food or moment so we just do a lot in slack, which I think ends up giving you a bit of a more personalized interaction with your customers or your advisors. So I haven't really had to do like a formal hey, let's meet quarterly. We're also small, we're a seed stage company, Um, but it's been really helpful to just be able to kind of have those those calls...

...on the calendar and also just have folks on slack, to be able to pay as needed when questions come up and and Um, yeah, and to have those customer channels of just request for the product and to have them right there. So just a quicker feedback has been really helpful. M Hmm. Yeah, that's great. I mean, if they're responsive on slack and they're meeting you bi weekly, that doesn't really get much better than that. Even if it was a normal program that's pretty great. Yeah, no, we've been really we've been really lucky with, yeah, some of the earliest advocates per moment and have just been Um, we really couldn't couldn't be in the spot without them. I'd love to hear just obviously you're trying to take us a little bit of a step back from marketing, having the head of marketing joint but are there any parts of marketing that you're kind of having a hard time letting go of? That just you're super passionate about personally and you kind of, if you had the time, you would hang onto those forever. Yeah, that's a great question. I love positioning and messaging and kind of figuring out the story. So we just redid our website. I still lead that effort because it was happy kicked off before before I brought in our head of worketing and and I love just, you know, figuring out the design and figuring out the pages, figuring out the messaging. I love writing, I love the copied part of it, so that that's something that I would I would love to keep my hands in Um going forward, and I also love just figuring out the the brand's story and kind of the brand messaging. So, you know, kind of higher level than just the website. What's our what's our positioning as we're going forward and as we're building out our platform? And I also really like supporting sales, so just putting together kind of a new sales deck. I like Um. I feel like this you can kind of get into a nice flow state when you're doing some of that creative work. And and you're having to come together and think about, okay, what if we learned about our customers, about our story, and to try...

...to translate that into, you know, a ten slide deck? I feel like it's a really good mind exercise and challenge. So I enjoy doing those things. I feel like your team is very lucky to have an exact that cares a lot about those things, because often those are kind of Oh, it's someone else's problem to figorate the homepage messaging or the sales deck. So that's really great. I think they're in a solid position with you on the exact team. Thank you. Yeah, I feel like if you can bring on a marketer, either as a founder or just super early on, and it gives you such a Lego, it really helps you just to just to have to to Um translate that story and to keep coming back, because it's very iterative and like, I feel like each year that we do momentum or early in our second year, but each year it's like we have to come up with it's changing so much and I know from you know, the previous companies that I've worked doubt and even in like you're five, you're still coming back to the drawing board sometimes and saying like okay, well now we're in this stage, now, we're going after the enterprise now. So it's such an iterative, constantly moving process that it does really help to have that voice and that advocacy for for marketing, you know, kind of at the foundational level of the company. M Hm. And do you have any advice for marketers who maybe aren't in that position, who their exact team marketing maybe isn't their priority or not their passion, but they're still trying to obviously they want to do a great job on the marketing team, but they might be a team of one. So they're stretched then, and how can they prove that? Not just the R O I, but just prove that they should be growing the marketing team in general. I think sitting down and asking either your boss or, you know, your CEO, which you're reporting into the founding team, what they want to see, because usually there's one or two things that somebody wants to see and you could be doing ten other things and if...

...you're not doing the one or two things, they don't think you're doing a good job, and that's kind of the sad reality of of of company building, I think because there's just not enough hours in the day and also not enough visibility to see all that somebody's working on. I think being remote to just adds to that that you're only seeing what people are posting in slack or maybe you're only seeing what's public or how many sign ups there are. So knowing what those metrics are because I think particularly for an exact team that doesn't come from marketing, they may have a very different idea of what you should be focused on then what you think coming into from marketing. So at least knowing what those what those drivers are, so that you can show progress on those things while you're also working on the things that you know are valuable or the things that you really feel like you can specialize in or that will move the needle maybe in the longer run. But having those conversationations early and to keep checking into and saying, has that changed? Um Ala on track? Are you seeing what you need to see, I think goes a long way. Yeah, like your point around doing that early on, just trying to get alignment, because if you're totally off base with what they were expecting, at least you know when you can try to get some quick ones that will please them and maybe you'll have them on your side really quickly, or it could go the total opposite direction if you don't have that conversation. So that's, yeah, exactly great. So I just have a couple of quick questions to round out our chat today. So the first is, is there a marketer that you follow that we should go check out? Our listeners should go follow them. COULD BE IN B two B or otherwise. Yeah, I I wanted to do a little bit of a shameless plug here, only because I'm not involved in all of my day to day anymore, but I do feel like they're putting out some some great, great content. So they just launched a newsletter inside all of mine from the team and I'm really enjoying they...

...launched it in January, so it's been about seven newsletters and it's a great roundup of like product marketing things across the Internet, tips and and stories to follow. So I would say yeah, the inside all of mine newsletter. Uh, I am biased, but I've actually legitimately been, uh, just impressed with the content and recommending it and I think other marketers would get a lot of value out of it. Great I'll get the link for that. Our audience is mostly on the demand inside, so product marketing could be a great resource for us to check it. And is there an under the radar channel or tactic that your team is loving, loving right now? I know you mentioned Linkedin is doing really well for you guys. Is there anything else that you've been seeing? Yeah, we've been using a tool called couple hole. We've been talking about it a lot actually, to different folks on our network. We we use it to get intros from our advisors and customers and just folks on our network. It it basically lets us see who in their network via Linkedin we could ask for Intros to and it really helps streamline the process. Then you can make the request right there. Before we were having to kind of email our advisors and hey, is there anyone that you think would like to try out momentum, and it's it's just it doesn't really ask for action. It's more of like yeah, sure, let me think about it, let me get back to you. It's very different to get them on a quick screen share, go through the network, have the list of people and then we follow up and say, Hey, can you forward this email to so and so we want to meet them. That's been incredibly effective for driving Um some top of funnel outside of the SDR we have. We have a team of SDRs outside of our outbound outside of our marketing, just been adding to our top of funnel in a really meaningful way, especially because a lot of these are warm connections to folks who are higher up in the organization. So that's been kind of our secret weapon, I would say,...

...in the last few months that and I would highly recommend people check out that tool that can I can send you the links and share one. Yeah, yeah, I'm interested in myself. Yeah, it's great. Yeah, and are you giving your sales team access to that directly or are you keeping those intros within your exact team for now? Yeah, the way we've been doing it is Sant r CEO is generally the one leading those sessions. I do it with some folks on our network too, and then we actually have our SDRS helping with post session sort of hey like draft up the email, make sure that our our head of sales make sure that those are the people that we want to go and target, and then once they make the connection, then our head of sales is brought in. So that's what it's been working so far, but I think we'll probably start to expand it now that we've kind of proven out the the methodology, so that other folks in the in the team can do it themselves. Great. Yeah, I love that. That's a great way to get the STRs involved in a new tool to ours. Are always curious to check out the new tech, so it's fun. Okay, and last question. Where can we go to follow you and your updates? Yeah, I'd say Linkedin is probably where I'm doing most of my um work related updates. I'm, of course, on instagram and twitter and too, but more on the personal side. But yeah, I would say Linkedin is is where you could connect with me and, uh, follow me there. Perfect, great. Well, we'll put those links in the show notes for everyone to check out. Thank you again. Actually, so much for your time. Really Nice speaking with you. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Really enjoyed it great and thanks everyone for listening. We'll be back in about two weeks with our new episode of demand in chat.

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